tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post8085348305979464612..comments2023-12-23T07:44:10.199+00:00Comments on University of Fantasy: hush hush, the designated love interest and gender relations in YAParametrichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04253928288479596268noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-7491729049929726752019-07-10T03:10:45.765+01:002019-07-10T03:10:45.765+01:00This entire post makes me want to weep for humanit...This entire post makes me want to weep for humanity patch doesn't do any of these thingsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-52568812917359491372014-06-30T05:41:29.749+01:002014-06-30T05:41:29.749+01:00I like the article but I feel like including Vampi...I like the article but I feel like including Vampire Academy in the list of offenders is VERY wrong. I feel like it's only up there because the romance in it is a "student-teacher" romance. Which, technically it's not because he's not a teacher at the school, he's the princesses body guard and offers to help train Rose to get her up to speed. But the sex and romance in the story is handled very well. There is a situation where Rose is almost potentially raped but it's not by the main love interest. Dimitri actually respects Rose, her age, and the fact that she's still in school. He doesn't try to intimidate her and make her feel less powerful, in fact Rose and Dimitri are equals which is what makes them so great together. Because he doesn't act like he needs to make Rose feel like she's safe either, she can protect and take care of herself, sometimes better than he could, and that's why he loves her, because she's sleek and beautiful but dangerous like a panther ready to strike. And even later when Rose has a different love interest and they're going to have sex, both naked, he doesn't have a condom so she doesn't wanna do it and accidentally get pregnant and he respects that, he doesn't try and force her to do anything anyways, he tells her it's okay they can just lay there and cuddle. Vampire Academy is actually one of THE BEST examples for young girls on dating and romance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-16929841515216846012012-06-10T09:52:38.665+01:002012-06-10T09:52:38.665+01:00I think this is an unfair post . Most everything i...I think this is an unfair post . Most everything is exaggerated . <br /> Sure Patch was a really bad boy . When the author says bad boy , she means it . He was lustful . He wanted to seduce , betray and kill Nora for plot related reasons . Killing her would give him a human body so he can satiate his lust . But he fell in love with her . Love won over lust . He gave up his dream of becoming human to keep Nora alive . Through the series you can see him becoming more moral . Thats redeeming enough .<br /> As for the sexual comments and touching , Nora actually liked it and he knew it . He never goes beyond the touching and kissing unless he's sure thats what Nora wants . He does respect her wishes as we see in this and later books .<br /> That Motel scene is exaggerated . He didn't ask her to strip . He only said she needed a hot shower as she was shivering . There were enemies out looking for her . He wanted to talk to her in a secluded place where they won't be interrupted so he can explain the whole 'I'm a fallen angel who wanted to kill you but can't , now there are others looking for you ' . He was the only one who could protect her . Hence the threatening and the straddling when she tried to run out of the motel into certain danger before he had a chance to explain . He didn't really have a choice .Elvennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-49339303750760516262011-01-08T08:17:33.365+00:002011-01-08T08:17:33.365+00:00I worry it's kind of bad form for an author to...I worry it's kind of bad form for an author to respond and I promise this will be my only such response - but I did want to validate the OP's view. Nick is certainly meant to be a deconstruction of the bad boy hero. Deconstruction's fun, and I did feel That Guy could use some. ;)<br /><br />Nick's not a great guy - he's a terrible guy - but he is meant to have some redeeming qualities, because I find the idea of focusing on a character without any awful and pointless. ;) (Chief said redeeming quality being familial rather than romantic love, another deliberate choice.)<br /><br />Basically telling a book from That Guy's pov and without illusions, and not using romantic love (not that I have anything against romantic love) was a choice, and it's a choice that has made the character of Nick unpalatable to many, many readers. (Also off-putting at many turns to the other characters in the books.) Those who enjoy other YA heroes and those who don't, as seen here. ;) If Nick was just intended to be squeed over, I'm smart enough to have done a much better job creating an alluring character! I meant to deconstruct (while trying to retain said allure, because if it's not there, what's to understand?)<br /><br />How *successful* I was in said deconstruction is obviously up to the individual reader, and just as obviously I wasn't successful for baeraad! And authorial intent is a flawed vehicle. But for what it's worth, for the most part I meant it the way the OP took it, and was pleased to read the article lo these many moons ago and again through a link just now! And so this is not all me blithering about myself, co-signed on Kristin Cashore. Her book Fire, I think, is even better than Graceling, and does a wonderful job deconstructing the femme fatale via literalising the myth of a woman 'so beautiful men can't help themselves.' It's a pretty sketch character - like the bad boy! - but Kristin Cashore made that idea into a person, thinking about how a woman with a real personality would be affected by being this archetype, how she'd struggle against it, how she'd use it, and what choices she'd make.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-38004688374871342662011-01-07T11:31:36.334+00:002011-01-07T11:31:36.334+00:00I agree with everything up until the part where yo...I agree with everything up until the part where you mentioned "The Demon's Lexicon."<br /><br />> the character of Nick Ryves is a deconstruction of the classic YA supernatural bad boy.<br /><br />Er... nnnnnnno he isn't? He's actually a very typical example of the classic YA supernatural bad boy. The most you can say is that he's a JUSTIFIED example of the trope, since there is an actual reason for why he's such a douchebag, whereas most supernatural bad boys are douchebags just because. But a deconstruction, no. He's still a douchebag, and yet we're still supposed to squee over how dark and dangerous and tormented he is, and the end is shown as a validation of him - "see? See? He really was a great guy deep inside after all!"<br /><br />> And the girl who is initially attracted to Nick for his bad-boyness comes to realise that he's a psychopath and kicks his ass to the kerb.<br /><br />Yeah, er, when does that happen? Because as far as I can recall, the girl goes along quite happily all the way to the end and has sexual tension with Nick and Alan at turns, and the end leaves it open who she will eventually end up with.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-7146695031529243342010-04-01T16:42:53.423+01:002010-04-01T16:42:53.423+01:00It makes me worry about the mindset of young girls...It makes me worry about the mindset of young girls where these boys are held up are paragons of sexuality. I think in the rush to be edgy, they have run over the edge.Mark Wisehttp://markwise.livejournal.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-89756217753486940672010-03-25T23:34:53.724+00:002010-03-25T23:34:53.724+00:00(this is attempt FOUR, what is UP with blogger tod...(this is attempt FOUR, what is UP with blogger today?)<br /><br />@April: "I really hate that teen girls seem to be idolizing this sort of behavior in their love interests."<br /><br />I don't think it's that teenagers are idolizing the behavior, so much as they are clinging to the promised rewards. Like the protagonist of SHUT UP, err, HUSH HUSH, most teenagers are well aware when their creep factor is ringing at high volume. But at the same time, our social rape culture is also telling them -- even louder than their internal creep alert -- that this is how the world works, that this kind of treatment is inevitable and unavoidable. <br /><br />It's hard enough dealing with those pressures as an adult; as a teenager, it's almost soul-crushing. No teenager, no person, likes to know that the daily lesson is that she can be cornered, abused, frightened, attacked, and dismissed and that there's nothing she can do about it. The problem is that books like these offer a kind of twisted hope: the misery is inevitable, but look, in the end, there's love! Which is a truly sad and horrible final lesson, to be reinforcing such damaging messages with a dangling carrot of love after a hundred pages of the stick.<br /><br />If young girls absorb that message and cling to the books as guides for how to deal with life in prison, I can't blame them for it. I save my ire for the adults -- the author, her agent, her publisher, her editor -- who should freaking know better, and who should have at least some bare scrap of human integrity to realize all they're doing is reinforcing the bars on the prison door. <br /><br />But I sure wish I could take those books away and give these teenaged girls something better, and a better world while I'm at it.kaigouhttp://kaigou.dreamwidth.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-30580934973692502862010-03-25T04:05:46.994+00:002010-03-25T04:05:46.994+00:00And this is when I put my copy of Hush, Hush all t...And this is when I put my copy of Hush, Hush all the way at the bottom of the TBR pile. I wish I had read more deconstructions of how psycho Patch is before I bought it.<br /><br />Srsly though, what kind of a name is Patch?! <br /><br />Okay, okay, in all seriousness, I really hate that teen girls seem to be idolizing this sort of behavior in their love interests. It's not sexy at all. Thank you for bringing up all of these points!April (BooksandWine)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15268544465552896599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-12262148983672959592010-03-25T04:00:54.443+00:002010-03-25T04:00:54.443+00:00Aw man I love this post. Hush, Hush is huge! Right...Aw man I love this post. Hush, Hush is huge! Right up there with Twilight! Twilight always struck me in a way I wish that it was not so popular. It scares me that they both are so popular!!<br /><br />Great words, you said it so well. So many obsess about these books, and boy are they everywhere. I'm writing a YA novel, inspired by Stephanie Meyer, I want to clean up the mess her and every other author like her has created. YA they are so important, so much sponges at those ages, they need better books. @genemarie1Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-9084631110320285392010-03-24T15:45:42.285+00:002010-03-24T15:45:42.285+00:00Ninja master.
You are as wise as you are awesome....Ninja master.<br /><br />You are as wise as you are awesome.Amnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15286300957307296262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-53567957074643431732010-03-24T05:37:16.200+00:002010-03-24T05:37:16.200+00:00Patch sounds quite scary and reading about what he...Patch sounds quite scary and reading about what he does in the book made me feel uncomfortable. This post was great. I thought you put your points across quite well. <br /><br />I didn't get very far into The Demon's Lexicon, and mainly because I found Nick to be quite an annoying and unlikeable protagonist. But now that you've pointed him out as a deconstruction of the classic YA supernatural boy, I'm glad I did read enough of it to see what you're talking about.Remilda Graystonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13649300813621588790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-81881090168071126922010-03-23T23:48:49.179+00:002010-03-23T23:48:49.179+00:00Yay, I've been missing your blog.
I don't...Yay, I've been missing your blog.<br /><br />I don't think I'll read that book then. I do like a bit of twisted romance, but not rape (at least, not when it's portrayed as okay). Your heroines are much better than this one sounds.Writer Hippiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16855991535429960042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-63193363154108359632010-03-23T23:43:48.355+00:002010-03-23T23:43:48.355+00:00I was going to read this book. Now, probably not....I was going to read this book. Now, probably not.<br /><br />Although I think an important distinction is that it is a symptom, not a cause.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-79365055618749591822010-03-23T22:01:36.199+00:002010-03-23T22:01:36.199+00:00Fantastic post!! The very first review I read of H...Fantastic post!! The very first review I read of Hush Hush ages ago described Patch as a horrible, scary person, so I've dismissed all the great reviews I've read since. But to see all of the things that he actually does in the book spelled out is horrifying!! I COMPLETELY agree about Graceling, that was my favorite book of '09, and I'll check out the Demon's Lexicon. Thank you for the great post!Carrie at In the Hammock Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01496016097652195216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-91057447871588341122010-03-23T21:53:15.839+00:002010-03-23T21:53:15.839+00:00Para, you rock so much. First, can't thank you...Para, you rock so much. First, can't thank you enough for linking me that awesome post by bookshop, and then your post this AWESOMENESS.<br /><br />You totally said everything that needs to be said about HH & abusive relationships in YA. And you put it so eloquently! I think I'll go link this from my blog as well :)<br /><br />Also, GREAT examples for kickass heroines! *loves those two books*in which a girl readshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12563423294648988362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-19988097876493083062010-03-23T21:16:45.950+00:002010-03-23T21:16:45.950+00:00I agree that having the LI stalk and try to kill t...I agree that having the LI stalk and try to kill the MC for the first half of the book is on the disturbing side, lol--and in that respect, I don't think it's like Twilight at all. (but that's another story!) :)<br /><br />I can't help feeling bad for the author, though, who is getting pummelled vocally all over the web when I doubt she did any of this on purpose--it's just a typical storyline like you'd find in any number of adult romance novels. What a bummer for her.<br /><br />As I commented on the original post you cited, too, I think part of the issue is parents should know what their teens are reading, so they can discuss the implications. Bc while teens *should* know this is a totally fictious situation--hello, fallen angel, anyone?--they may, as you suggest, subconsciously apply parts to real life. <br /><br />But honestly, I think a lot of whether or not this type of novel has any effect on readers is going to depend on upbringing and parental involvement. If you're raising your daughter to be a strong girl who doesn't accept that kind of crap, is she *really* going to be swayed by this? I doubt it.Debra Drizahttp://www.houndrat.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-22292539694649630642010-03-23T19:58:15.470+00:002010-03-23T19:58:15.470+00:00Fantastic post. It sounds more like horror/thrille...Fantastic post. It sounds more like horror/thriller than romance.kellionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-33874684717458349252010-03-23T19:36:25.977+00:002010-03-23T19:36:25.977+00:00This is an excellent post! Thank you so much for ...This is an excellent post! Thank you so much for linking me to it. I second both the recs for Graceling and TDL, and also want to throw in recs for 2 of last year's debs, Ash and Silver Phoenix, which both explicitly dealt with and rejected enforced gender and sexual roles for women.<br /><br />I agree with you completely. The problem as I see it now is that there's no impetus to change. With Twilight being a mega-hit (not that Twilight is by any means the root of the problem), naturally Hush, Hush is going to get a huge release push and become a giant bestseller, which is just going to spur more authors on to write books like it and like Swoon. Even if books like Graceling and TDL sell relatively well and are critically acclaimed, it's really hard not to see the success of Hush, Hush as encouraging more books that push this kind of message onto teen readers, who will then grow up to write more books with the same kinds of built-in misogyny.<br /><br />Although really, the fact that publishers are willing to publish books with messages that are <i>pathologically harmful</i> to teens but are resistant to putting gay kisses in other YA novels makes me fear that even acknowledging the existence of a collective and ongoing problem will do very little to reshape industry priorities.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-70882034272471119562010-03-23T19:17:16.364+00:002010-03-23T19:17:16.364+00:00Very nice post, Para. I've not read Hush, Hush...Very nice post, Para. I've not read Hush, Hush, but I have read Twilight and the whole "watching Bella sleep" thing never sat right with me. 'Tis rather upsetting.Caitlin R. O'Connellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10783453696462112780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-62303809443427376892010-03-23T19:14:44.769+00:002010-03-23T19:14:44.769+00:00Awesome post! I haven't read Hush Hush, and ha...Awesome post! I haven't read Hush Hush, and have no desire to from everything I've heard, but this sort of thing just makes my blood boil. (Having done my dissertation on sexual violence and male/female perspectives of power... need I say more?)<br /><br />I read the blog post you referenced, and she also made good points. Only thing I'm not sure I agree with is including Vampire Academy in there. That one really feels like a stretch to me. Sure, the MC can be very immature, but to equate her position to Bella/Nora/etc.? Can't see that at all. (Haven't read the others so I can't comment.)<br /><br />Funny thing about The Demon's Lexicon is that I didn't like it all *because* the MC is such a psycho. I couldn't stand being in his head. ;-) Which really just goes to make your point perfectly clear!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-11610609669506742222010-03-23T19:08:04.444+00:002010-03-23T19:08:04.444+00:00I think you hit the nail right on the head.
Now I...I think you hit the nail right on the head.<br /><br />Now I'm going to go find myself a copy of Graceling and The Demon's Lexicon. :)Becca Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04093826047366957481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6923269274005536652.post-47844117181336357282010-03-23T19:00:47.028+00:002010-03-23T19:00:47.028+00:00Just thought of something: If you are really inter...Just thought of something: If you are really interested in exploring this with a larger audience, consider approaching Sarah of Smart Bitches, Trashy Books and ask her to review this one. She's recently been commenting on books outside the adult romance genre. I suspect she'd be interested in a discussion.Jan O'Hara (Tartitude)https://www.blogger.com/profile/04930129153455367820noreply@blogger.com